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[personal profile] sereshka
   В каких случаях вы считаете оправданным употребление they в значении единственного числа, когда пол человека неизвестен? 

1. Everyone should drive their cars on the right side of the road.
2. A student is expected to turn in their homework.
3. A friend lent me their keys.
4. A LiveJournal friend sent me their condolences. 
5. Dr. Zhu has presented their results at a conference.
6. A paper reported on the discovery made by Frule Mozgol. Their findings are shocking. 
7. Anyone can scratch their noses.
8. When asked about the situation, the politician, who wished to remain anonymous, stated their party position rather than their personal opinion.
9. Hospital records revealed that the kidney was donated by a person named Prikle Tuffinen. Their contribution is sincerely appreciated.
10. Hospital records identified the donor as X. Their contribution is sincerely appreciated.
11. Hospital records indicated that the kidney was donated by an anonymous donor. Their contribution is sincerely appreciated.
12. A lawyer is expected to listen to their client.
13. The paper ran an editorial on the findings of Frule Mozgol. Their journalistic ethics was questionable. 

Date: 2011-04-02 11:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ikadell.livejournal.com
Whenever you are talking to or about men and women, regardless of the gender.

3 does not work - you know the gender of the friend, or the phrase does not make sense.
5, 6, 9 and 13 do not work - you should know, or you should be polite enough to find out the gender of Dr. Zhu, Frule Mozgol and Prikle Tuffinen.

Date: 2011-04-03 12:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sereshka.livejournal.com
So, 8 works, in your opinion?
What if in 3 you know the gender but don't want to give it out? (I personally find this sentence very awkward, but at least one grammar manual says that it may be acceptable, if you don't want to identify your friend.)

Date: 2011-04-03 12:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ikadell.livejournal.com
Well, yes, 8 sounds stupid, but it works.
If you don't want to give out, I think it's better to structure it differently: I borrowed the keys from a friend (for instance).

I have seen people use ze. It looks even worse.

Date: 2011-04-03 02:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_milashka/
+1
Plus anytime you use the definite article - "the" - you're talking about a specific person, so in that case you would also use either he or she, as in the case of "the politician"

Date: 2011-04-03 02:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_milashka/
in #13 I would say "its" as in "the paper's"
Also, for some reason I want to say "a lawyer should listen to his client", not "their"
Edited Date: 2011-04-03 02:28 am (UTC)

Date: 2011-04-03 02:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sereshka.livejournal.com
Does the combination "its journalistic ethics" sound right to you? It sounds awkward to me to apply the concept of ethics to a non-person, although the pronoun 'its' is certainly right for the 'paper'. I don't have a big problem with 'their' either, as the paper may be considered as a collective noun, meaning "its journalists".

12 and 2 seem the same to me, unless 2 refers to a single particular student, in which case it becomes unacceptable to me, despite the use of an indefinite article.

Date: 2011-04-03 02:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_milashka/
I think it's because an indefinite article is used indicating that it's a singular student/lawyer. I mean, if they wanted to use "their", they should have also used the plural - students/lawyers

Date: 2011-04-03 03:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erin-karsa.livejournal.com
It's interesting that you choose to use "they" to refer to the person who wrote the sentences.

Date: 2011-04-03 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_milashka/
i actually mean "they" - the people who wrote it :)

Date: 2011-04-03 02:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sereshka.livejournal.com
I feel the same way. As long as you can use an indefinite article, there is some room for wiggling. As soon as you know the person, there is no ambiguity. That's why 10 "the donor X" does not work either, although an "anonymous donor" is somewhat acceptable.

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